RickRichtmyer
From:
Beautiful Adamstown, MD
Posted 10 Aug 2001 8:34 am
|
| While reading this thread and seeing the reluctance on the part of some to want steel used for non-country purposes or in ways that they don't personally envision it, I can't help but think of the acceptance that some very serious classical violinist have given Mark O'Connor. If someone plays steel and I can sense that they love and respect it as a real musical instrument, then I'm going to trust them in the direction in which they wish to take it. Call me nuts if you want to. (It won't be the first time). ------------------ |
Gene Jones
From:
Oklahoma City, OK USA, (deceased)
Posted 10 Aug 2001 11:55 am
|
| In summarizing some of the comments made above....there are two audiences; (1)WE the choir of musicians and steel guitar players, and (2)EVERYONE ELSE! "We" know what we as musicians contribute to the music business, but the "everyone else", the music consumers who make what we do possible, don't give a tinkers d--n about anything except the "star" who is up front singing. If you don't believe it, go to the "stars" fans and ask them about the musicians who toured or recorded with them for years.....Ask Conway Twitty's fans who John Hughey is? Ask how many, other than musicians, have any idea who is Buddy Emmons, or Tom Brumley, etc? You will almost always get a puzzled look...like, "what difference does it make, does he sing?" Only time will tell whether Robert Randolph's unique musical background and playing is only a temporary novelty, or if he will survive to carve out his permanent place in the steel guitar community. But, if he does, he will not be the catalyst to bring the rest of the world to the alter of the steel-guitar.....he will be like those mentioned above and the many others like them............. He will be admired, respected, and honored only by his peers. No one else will care! |
Paul Crawford
From:
Orlando, Fl
Posted 10 Aug 2001 1:13 pm
|
| One other perspective on the NBC gig that I've heard and really openned my eyes. Isn't the way you produce a TV show just about the very worst format for a jam band that you could possbily have? For a big TV show, you'd have a couple of run throughs, one for the sound guys, then another for the lighting and video types. You finish up that and have the producer walking up to you with a stop watch in his hand and say, "OK, guys. Do it exactly like that tonight." Huh?!? Robert's music is based more than anyone's on playing what is in his heart and putting his feelings on the fret board. You've just done that for the world, then someone tells you to do the same thing all over again. It would be about as alien to the style as someone telling you to run hard but breath the exact same way. I'm sure there are a lot of free form guitar players out there that would well understand the problem. I'll guess that if we creeped around backstage and gave it a listen, this would have been one for the first times Robert had ever been put in this type of situation. You could do it with practice but hey, this is your first big TV gig and you got to start somewhere. If it were me, I'd be shaking enough to have a a two fret vibrato on every note. It will be interesting to compare this gig with another TV gig in a year or so, after some experience in being constrained like that. [This message was edited by Paul C on 10 August 2001 at 02:17 PM.] |
Bob Hoffnar
From:
Austin, Tx
Posted 10 Aug 2001 1:40 pm
|
| Gene Jones, You are missing something about what is going on with Robert. The "EVERYBODY ELSE" that you are talking about are the ones going to his concerts. Robert is the star. He is not a sideman or in any sort of support role. He is packing large concert halls with plain old dummies that like music and don't care about musicians. This is very different than anything that has ever happened before with the pedalsteel. Herb, Things are changing real fast around here. Bob |
Gene Jones
From:
Oklahoma City, OK USA, (deceased)
Posted 10 Aug 2001 3:42 pm
|
| .........."Robert is the star. He is not a sideman or in any sort of support role. He is packing large concert halls with plain old dummies that like music and don't care about musicians"............. That was exactly my point, he is an entertainer and the "star", not JUST an ordinary working steel player. But aside from that, I sincerely wish him success in influencing more young people to want to learn to play the steel. [This message was edited by Gene Jones on 10 August 2001 at 04:43 PM.] |
Mike Perlowin
From:
Los Angeles CA
Posted 10 Aug 2001 3:59 pm
|
| I missed the show. Does anybody have a tape they can lend me? |
Dan Tyack
From:
Olympia, WA USA
Posted 10 Aug 2001 5:38 pm
|
| I was gigging out of town and didn't see the show, but it doesn't surprise me that the tone might have been less than par. All those late night TV show musical performances are pretty lame, IMHO. I've got a few comments (surprise....) Before anybody makes a comments on Roberts technical ability, get a copy of 'the Word' CD and listen to cut #4. The only 'country' player I personally know who could cut those lines with anything like Robert's attack and precision is Paul Franklin. And he would need some time woodshedding. And of course, he still wouldn't sound the same, because this music is very personal. If you don't like his playing, that's one thing, but don't say he can't play. The second thing is that for everybody talking about 'effects', you need to listen to this music before you start talking about this. There are a whole lot more effects on most country steel guitar recordings from the last 40 years than you will hear in a sacred steel performance (e.g. reverb, echo, volume pedal, that ubiquitous chorus from the 80s and 90s). The Sacred Steel players don't use a lot of effects. Usually just a wah pedal and some sort of overdrive very occasionally. And the wah is not the gimmicky thing you hear with a lot of guitar playing, it is used to provide a key element to their vocal like sound, much as country pedal steel players use volume pedals. THe Campbell Brothers are constantly getting on my case for using too many effects.... And lastly, the exposure of this previosly unknown branch of the steel guitar universe is great. To knock the young players in this tradition because they aren't echoing the country masters makes as much sense as knocking the young country players because they aren't showing sufficient exposure to Calvin Cooke, Henry Nelson, Chuck Campbell, or the other masters of this tradition. We all can learn from eachother. And we steel players will all benefit from the exposure of the instrument which is happening from groups like the Campbell Brothers or players like Robert. Especially those who have been playing with these guys and can appreciate their style. I suppose I might have been accused of hanging with these guys and learning their approach to the steel for my own personal gain, except that I have been trying to get country players to listen to them for a while. I seem to recall a thread from over a year ago in which I tried to get the Nashville steel players to come down to the Keith Dominion national convention in Nashville, but the only player who came down (three times!) was my friend Kris Wilkinson, a viola player..... PS, the definitive Sacred Steel album is yet to come, it's the to be released Campbell Brothers live CD. This is the CD which will put the pedal steel to another level. ------------------ [This message was edited by Dan Tyack on 10 August 2001 at 06:39 PM.] |
Jim Cohen
From:
Philadelphia, PA
Posted 10 Aug 2001 6:59 pm
|
| OOOkay. So I went down to the Theater of the Living Arts in Philly tonite to hear The Word with Robert Randolph and John Medeski, and guess what...? SOLD OUT! Not only was it sold out but there was a very sizeable crowd of twenty-somethings all over the sidewalk trying desperately to find someone with an extra ticket to sell, or trying to sweet-talk the bouncer into letting them in. And the music that was pouring outta that place was Awesome. Hard-driving guitar and organ. Did it sound like a "steel guitar" to me? Nope, not really. But boy did it sound goood! I wish I could do that! You go, Robert, you go! p.s. I just got my copy of their CD today and have played it. Dan Tyack is right. Fuggetabout Conan the Barbarian. Get the CD if you wanna know what's happenin', or even better, attend a live show where you can taste it. ------------------ |
Michael Holland
From:
Nashville, Tennessee, USA
Posted 10 Aug 2001 7:39 pm
|
| OOOkay, Jim, So everything you've ever accomplished on the steel guitar is superceded. Please relenquish your seniority now. |
Jim Cohen
From:
Philadelphia, PA
Posted 10 Aug 2001 8:05 pm
|
| All's I'm saying is he's creating a big buzz and pulling in large crowds of people who are very excited about his music. I'm proud for him. It's as simple as that. |
Dave Giegerich
From:
Ellicott City, MD, R.I.P.
Posted 10 Aug 2001 8:41 pm
|
| I saw The Word last night at 9:30 Club in DC and thought Robert Randolph was great. It was very cool to stand in the back of a packed house and watch a guy get a crowd going with steel guitar instrumentals. Dave Giegerich |
Dan Tyack
From:
Olympia, WA USA
Posted 11 Aug 2001 12:59 am
|
| Maybe I am wrong, but it's almost like some players seem threatened somehow by the emergence of this style of playing. I don't see this as competing with the country or swing side of the instrument. First of all, the Sacred Steel players are very well aware of the country players, respect them, learn from them, and the last thing on their minds would be to in any way diminish those styles of playing. The players who need to worry are the guitar, keyboard and slide players, because people like Chuck Campbell and Robert Randolph are directly in competion with those sorts of parts, from a session musician's perspective. Now most of the players on the forum will probably never play, or will be requested to play in this style. That's fine, probably very few forumites play or have been requested to play 4 wheel drive. If a player is sticking to the mainstream country or swing side of the music biz, then this entire musical genre is something they can listen to and either like or not like, it will likely have little affect on what they are asked to play. Now session players will probably look at this stuff really closely, because it is already a fact that some producers are hearing the buzz about this style. For instance, the Blind Boys of Alabama did some gigs with the Campbell Brothers last year, and their latest release has David Lindlay playing lap steel all over the record, their first use of lap or slide guitar. I have already done some jazz gigs this month where the first question was 'who is this guy Robert Randolph?'. I would venture to say that 5 years from now, when the average music listener thinks of pedal steel, the response will shift from today's 'what is that' to being connected to players who play somewhere in that Sacred Steel style. But that shouldn't be a threat to steel players. Just as the Beatles and Jimi Hendrix didn't eliminate country or jazz guitar, the Sacred Steel style won't make the current mainstream pedal steel style defunct, all it will do is further the reach of the instrument. ------------------ |
Gene Jones
From:
Oklahoma City, OK USA, (deceased)
Posted 11 Aug 2001 3:38 am
|
| Very good comments above, but at my age I don't feel threatened by anyone or anything except death! |
Mike Perlowin
From:
Los Angeles CA
Posted 11 Aug 2001 4:33 am
| ||
You're not wrong Dan. Some people are threatened by ANYTHING that's in any way different from the way they normally think. This is true in every field. Perhaps the most tragic example is the medical profession, which rejected the Kenny treatment for polio for 60 years because it was invented or discovered by a nurse rather than a doctor. Who knows how many lives that were ruined by this disease could have been salvaged if the doctors had not been so closed-minded. When the use of the steel in Juju music became known, the same people reacted the same way. Juju proved to be a passing fad (at least in America) but Robert Randolph and the Sacred Steel guys appear to be here to stay, and some of out more rigid members apparently can't handle that. Open your minds guys. I promise that nothing will fall out. (Except maybe ignorance and intolerance.) |
Mike Bagwell
From:
Greenville, SC, USA
Posted 11 Aug 2001 5:49 am
|
| Mike and Dan, In my part of the country (the south)a stright ahead country country band is rare indeed. All country bands playing club jobs (like it or not) are expected to play southern rock,and some bands play Hendrix and alot of blues. Its been this way for years. Distorted pedal steel using the blues scale is as common around South Carolina as E's to Eb. Mike |
Stephen R. Feldman
From:
Takoma Park, MD
Posted 11 Aug 2001 7:20 am
|
| I have to second Dave, the guy's done his homework, he knows what he's doing, and does it very well. It's louder, with more treble, but any effects were tasty and not overdone. I've heard the cd, and you really have to see him live. To anyone: Where were you and your playing when you were 22? You guys are teachers to the rest of us who are just starting, and if Robert is adding to the sonic palette, then you should be proudest of all! If he's seeing further, it's because he's standing on your shoulders... We have our own "classical" players (Emmons, Charleton, etc., etc.,...) we need folks who like Susan Alcorn and Robert Randolph are willing to try something new. Anyone who goes to a psg teacher because of Robert will immediately be exposed (though the teacher's example) the classical psg school, and nature will take it's course... Robert stayed around at the front of the stage after the show, signing autographs and shaking hands, and was a nice guy about it! He even spare me a minute to show me the kind of bar he was using. This is a great thing that's happening! |
HowardR
From:
N.Y.C.-Fire Island-Asheville
Posted 11 Aug 2001 7:41 am
|
| Well folks, like it or not, "the die is cast". Not only is this ball rolling, it's picking up momentum and all we can do is go along for the ride....and I think that it'll be a good one..... |
Dan Tyack
From:
Olympia, WA USA
Posted 11 Aug 2001 10:16 am
|
| Mike, the only straight ahead country bands I know in the greater Seattle area are a few that play the Eagles and similar clubs on weekends. As a matter of fact, there are virtually no country bars in the entire area, the market almost completely dried up. ------------------ |
seldomfed
From:
Colorado
Posted 13 Aug 2001 3:34 pm
|
| "This is a freaking miracle for the pedalsteel !" YES!! I'm trying to think of something new and profound to share - but the bottom line for me personally is; 1)Robert is good!, 2)he plays from the heart! 3)he is opening doors for himself and this instrument because of his talent and visibility. I wish him great success. (luck and timing don't hurt either -but he's seems to have hit on that one) RELATED COMMENTS: If new (young or old) players walk into this open door - they'll eventually find out what lies beyond. They'll find Sol Hoopii, they'll find Jerry Byrd, they'll find Doug J. and Buddy E. and all the other great players you care to mention that added their unique contribution to the evolution. Geez, I started playing "Freight Train" to get girls when I was 12 - and eventually drove my Mom crazy trying to learn how EC played the lead on 'I'm So Glad' (Cream) - now look where I'm at. Playing steel! (and driving my wife crazy). I used to hate c&w music when I was a kid. Now I look back and realize that when I was in the Navy on Oahu 25 years ago I could have been taking lessons from Jerry Byrd! down at Harry's instead of drinking Primo on the beach! hmmmm, I wonder if Fender has any stats on guitar sales over the years after JQ Public first heard, Hendrix, Van Halen, G. Benson, Hedges, Django, SRV, Chet, ... insert your fav innovatator here... If I were teaching steel - I'd learn "Joyful Sounds" real quick. (I think I will anyway) btw, how many of you enjoyed the Sacred Steel jams at Scotty's last year? cool stuff . cheers, ------------------ |
Herb Steiner
From:
Spicewood TX 78669
Posted 13 Aug 2001 5:53 pm
|
| Speaking of the jam last year at ISGC in the Peavey room, let me list the Forumites that performed. On steel was Lonnie Bennett (real Sacred Steeler), Dan Tyack, Bruce Bouton, Stu Schulman (steel and electric guitar) and yours truly. Among the others on the bandstand, Bob Hoffnar played bass and, as I recall, Frank Estes (!) played drums. I dare say I have never played with a group of more culturally, ethnically, philosophically and politically diverse human beings. But it rocked, dudes and dudettes. Hey Dan... can we do it again? ------------------ |
Kenny Davis
From:
Great State of Oklahoma
Posted 14 Aug 2001 10:25 am
|
| I think what impresses me most about Robert, is how he credits the steel guitar keeping him out of trouble, even alive! That's the best story - He stands to bring audiences to 2 things: The steel guitar, and his faith. |
Dan Tyack
From:
Olympia, WA USA
Posted 14 Aug 2001 11:39 am
|
| I'd love it if there were a jam in the Peavey room again, but I'm not organizing it. Last time it used a lot of time and energy (and a little money) to arrange all that, and I'd rather just hang around and listen and play this year. Scotty and Peavey were fine with doing it, so if somebody on the forum wanted to formally arrange it, that would be great. Or something might happen serendipitously, who knows. I know that there are a lot of people at the convention who will want to hear Chuck Campbell play..... ------------------ |
Mike Perlowin
From:
Los Angeles CA
Posted 14 Aug 2001 11:56 am
|
| Last uear we all had to make a choice. Go to the jam, or catch the set of our fellow forumite (and my personal friend) Chuck Lettes. I opted to see hand hear Chuck, who (as expected) played great. I also really liked the tone of his Mullen. I hope that in the future, if any more jams like this are set up, they scheduled at a time when they don't conflict with the regular program. |
Dan Tyack
From:
Olympia, WA USA
Posted 15 Aug 2001 4:26 pm
|
| Mike, if you set up the jam, you could set it for any time you want! (hint....) I was bummed to miss Chuck's set as well. ------------------ |
Bob Stone
From:
Gainesville, FL, USA
Posted 16 Aug 2001 11:08 am
|
| It is interesting to imagine discussions similar to those of this thread if the instrument were the "standard" electric guitar. Who would even want to begin to compare Wes Mongomery to Chet Atkins, Charlie Christian, Jimi Hendrix or Dick Dale? These are all consumate artists in their own respective fields playing drastically different musical forms on essentially the same instrument. Or consider the violin. Who would compare Tommy Jarrell to Jascha Heifitz, Mark O'Connor or Stephane Grappelli. Absurd. Robert is playing a different kind of music with his PSG. You may or may not like it, you may even hate it (Hendrix never did much for me), but I'll assure you he is really good at what he does. Sure there's hype. It seems like that's what it takes to get noticed these days. I didn't see Robert on the Conan show, but it sounds like his performance and/or broadcast sound was not anywhere near 100%. I'd hate to see any musician judged on a couple of minutes of off-quality TV broadcast. By the way, "The Word" is currently the number one selling blues CD in the nation. See my post under Events and Announcements. [This message was edited by Bob Stone on 16 August 2001 at 12:15 PM.] |
